• R

  RobHodges -4 years ago

  Dear Rabbi Jacobson,

  Thank you very much for this talk. As a Christian I have been studying the topic of forgiveness in what we call the New Testament and the Old Testament. In particular the part that repentance does or should play in any act of forgiveness. I had studied the story of Joseph and realised its importance in this regard but had been puzzled by Joseph’s shenanigan. Why these elaborate games with his brothers? To what end etc? I had come to realise that for true forgiveness and reconciliation to occur there needed to be repentance  or true repentance I should probably say. I knew that the process that Joseph took his brothers through was somehow linked to revealing whether or not they had changed and whether repentance had infiltrated their lives. Once this was established Joseph would be able to forgive and be reconciled with his brothers. Your teaching has brought such clarity to this and so many wonderful details in the story which now make sense. Thank you I found it very moving to listen to. 

  In the Christian church there is an idea which might be described as one-sided forgiveness. This is where you forgive a brother whether he repents or not. I do not feel this is the teaching of the New Testament. Indeed Jesus says in Luke chapter 17 that if a brother sins against you, rebuke him and if he repents forgive him. Some might even claim that the story of Joseph is an example of one sided forgiveness. But I do not think this is the case. The story seems an elaborate and clever method of revealing or establishing that the brothers were truly repentant.

  Anyway, thank you. I will certainly listen to other classes you have given.

  many thanks

  RobHodges

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  • Anonymous -4 years ago

    The Jewish people reject the new testament.

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• RO

  Rivkah Ozersky -7 years ago

  Dear Rabbi Jacobson,
  Thank you for another great shiur.
  I have a question about the origin of the visceral hate that the brothers had for their half brother Joseph. They grew up in a household where their father had four wives and one of them was obviously his chosen most loved one. And so were her sons: Joseph and Benjamin, the sons of Rachel.
  Is it a sacrilege to think that Yaakov should have a done better job of showing similar affection to his all his wives and even a much better job of being more discret and less effusive in his favoritism toward Joseph?
  Is it possible that Yaakov Avinu didn't have an inkling of what could be the consequences of his unrestrained acts of favoritism to Rachel her children?
  After all he is Yaakov Avinu.

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• S

  Svv -10 years ago

  To Alternative biur:
  
  
  
  
  You forgot to mention: the man is forced to marry her only if she wants it. The woman is not forced to marry him.
  
  
  
  But the Jewish people chose to marry G-d, through the revelation of the Ein Sof (mountain) over their heads.

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• C

  Chana -11 years ago

  Yosef recreating jealousy
  Perhaps Yosef knowing that Yaacov would never agree to send Binyomin down, was also part of the recreation of jealousy.  This could have aroused a strong sense of it, with the brothers seeing their father hold on to Binyomin rather than free Shimon from prison in Egypt.  Only when the food ran out did Yaacov give in and allow Binyomin to be brought down to Egypt.  The brothers seeing their father "ignore" the plight of a son of Leah (Shimon), to keep a son of Rachel (Binyomin) out of harms way, surely could have made the brothers angry had they not changed.

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• M

  M -11 years ago

  Sorry
  My dear esteemed Rabbi Jacobson,
  
   
  
  Sorry, i don't buy any of this.
  
   
  
  I didn't know that G-d did this forcing of the wedding. Looks like it will only become abusive. We had just gotten out of Egypt for crying out loud. Then He is going to sic Amalek upon us. not one, but two destructions of the Beit Hamikdash, the threats from Haman, the Holocaust, on and on.  No, i am not in the mood for such a spouse. G-d of goodness and fairness, great, i want that relationship.
  
   
  
  As to your second point about managing through marital crises, your joke is more accurate than your naive opinions. A wedding can have the best intentions, yet one spouse might turn toxic. You must divorce of die a lonely death. If you are lucky, you find another spouse, and hope the second time works. Too many wise elderly  rabbis have no clue about a bad marriage. They know things about Heaven. They don't know things about Hell. There is no Hell on Earth like a bad marriage. Rabbis have a tendency to force a bad marriage to stay together. They take it personally as if their counseling skills fail. Their world revolves around them, not the aggrieved  spouse or spouses.
  

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• M

  M -12 years ago

  I don;t buy this
  Sorry, i don't buy any of this.
  
   
  
  I didn't know that G-d did this forcing of the wedding. Looks like it will only become abusive. We had just gotten out of Egypt for crying out loud. Then He is going to sic Amalek upon us. not one, but two destructions of the Beit Hamikdash, the threats from Haman, the Holocaust, on and on.  No, i am not in the mood for such a spouse. G-d of goodness and fairness, great, i want that relationship.
  
   
  
  As to your second point about managing through marital crises, your joke is more accurate than your naive opinions. A wedding can have the best intentions, yet one spouse might turn toxic. You must divorce of die a lonely death. If you are lucky, you find another spouse, and hope the second time works. Too many wise elderly  rabbis have no clue about a bad marriage. They know things about Heaven. They don't know things about Hell. There is no Hell on Earth like a bad marriage. Rabbis have a tendency to force a bad marriage to stay together. They take it personally as if their counselling skills fail. Their world revolves around them, not the aggrieved  spouse or spouses.
  

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• E

  eliana -12 years ago

  perfect timing
  In the midst of a pretty big misunderstanding with my husband and it's hurting me to no end. What
  
  
  a Bracha Hashem has sent me this morning to pop open to your website and have these words glare 
  
  
  out at me.  I have just received an erev shabbos hashgocha protis gift!
  
  
  
  
  
  Now to reciprocate, I have to  work on myself to make up and clear up this whole stumbling block so we can proceed together giving Hashem and our Rebbe and actually ourselves much joy. 
  
  
  
  
  
  Thank you so much. You don't even know  how helpful you were in all this. Much appreciation! 
  
  
  

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• RD

  R. D. -12 years ago

  Great
  Fantastic. Simply fantastic. The way it is said... the message itself... I don't know how you do it. Yasher koach 

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• C

  Chaim -12 years ago

  Alternitive Biur
  There is a law in torah that if a man rapes a woman he must marry her and is not allowed to divorce her, hence, as Hashem "raped"/coerced us to keep the Torah he can never divorce us (bound by his own laws)    מגיד דבריו ליעקב חקיו ומשפטיו לישראל

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• SS

  Shmuel S -12 years ago

  Yaakov part of the plot?
  Great Shiur!
  
  Is it actually brought down anywhere that Yosef thought Yaakov was part of the plot? When Yosef was sent to Shchem he said "Hineni" knowing it was dangerous (Rashi). Does this lend credence to this idea?
  

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• A

  Anonymous -13 years ago

  amazing
  
  
  

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• A

  avraham -14 years ago

  thanks
  Another excelent article, congratulations.

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• E

  Elki -14 years ago

  To Yishayahu
  Expounding a bit on Isaac's comment. It should have said "AT the foot of the mountain..." certainly not IN the mountain as the Hebrew words translate. Therefore, the allusion to actually standing within the mountain.

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• I

  Isaac -14 years ago

  to Yishayahu
  the most literal translation of the words is: they stood in the bottom of the mountain.

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• Y

  yishayahu -14 years ago

  the mount
  my jewish study bible says on the foot of the mountain not in the mountain. where did you get in the mountain?

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• D

  Dvorah -14 years ago

  then...galut
  G-d sent us on a long journey to Galut and has brought us (at least some of us lucky ones) bach to His PLACE...can we separate from uor spouses, go far and still count on each other in a true way ???

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• H

  hi -14 years ago

  wonderful
  Wonderful essay, a powerful and very pragmatic perspective on a day to day basis.
  Very interesting to not that the Ben Ish Chai comments on this piece of gemorah by saying that the Jews said Naaseh Vnishma on what is in their nature to do and Hashem forced them so to speak to accept upon themselves to do mitzvos that are against there nature and they forcfully consented.
  Yosher Koach
  

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• A

  alex -14 years ago

  Sinai/coersion?
  I believe that there is a huge misunderstanding of the intention behind the act of holding the mountain above the Israelites at the moment of their reaffirming their pledge.
  We must look at what the Torah's fundamental purpose is. Basically, we are exhorted to become mensches individually, and to be a mamleches Kohanim in the aggregate. In order to accomplish that we have to own our words and our promises.
  For a man who has attained, his words bind him, and the promises he makes, extreme as it may sound, have the value of his life being on the line. He is his word.
  The mountain being suspended
  over the collective is a metaphor for the weight that we should give our words.
  There is a degree of attainment available, where the person who makes a promise, would sooner die than break his word. This is a rare madrega to achieve, but when you are on the path, you take your words very seriously.
  As was pointed out the promise had already been made,
  but the importance of that promise (or any other promise for that matter) had to be driven home.
  It may be of import to state
  that the above principle is not exclusive to vows taken
  between man and God. It is pervasive in the life of someone with integrity (not to be confused with honesty),
  who uses words sparingly, lest unintended effects are created.
  

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• J

  joe -14 years ago

  very deep
  A very profound idea. Sometimes even when you forces into something it is real for you, since it constitutes who you really are.

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• Y

  YYJ -14 years ago

  to Sholom
  Alshich to Mikatz 42:6. (page 371 in the Vagshel 1990 edition.)
  He does not eloberate. He merely states that just as they gave their father to drink “the cup of sorrow,” the cup of anguish, so too he anguished them, through his cup.

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• SC

  sholom cohen -14 years ago

  alshich
  Rabbi Jacobson,
  
  In last week's shiur, you explained the teaching of the Alshich relating to five aveiros of the brothers and the corresponding actions of Yosef.
  
  
  Brother’s actionsYosef’s reaction
  Spoke harshly of YosefSpoke harshly to brothers
  Plotted to killAccused them of spying which is capital crime
  Threw Yosef in pitThrew brother’s in jail (pit)
  Sold Yosef and used money to buy shoesAccused brothers of stealing money
  Caused pain to father by showing Yosef’s coatCaused pain to brothers over the goblet
  
  You mentioned, in tantalizing fashion, the connection that the Alshich makes between the cost and the goblet but did not elaborate. I’ve looked into the Toras Moshe for Miketz 44, but couldn’t find a reference to the coat. Can you provide the actual section or other source that discusses the Alshich?
  
  A sheynem dank,
  
  Sholom Cohen
  Pittsburgh

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• Y

  YYJ -14 years ago

  מענה לשאלת ריקי פישביין
  

  
  
  במענה לשאלתך, אין כאן שתי דרכים שונות של מוסר וחסידות בנידון זה, שהרי יסוד הדבר על עשרה הרוגי מלכות הובא בריבוי ספרי קבלה וכו'. וגם מפורש בפיוט אלה אזכרה בתפלת יוהכ"פ, שההגמון אמר שזה בחטא מכירת יוסף לעבד. ופשוט שכן הוא גם על פי חסידות. אלא, שגם על פי חסידות, התיקון עדיין לא היה מושלם, כי גם לאחרי כל התיקונים שלהם סוף כל סוף לא הי' תיקון גמור על מכירת יוסף ולכן הוצרכו להתגלגל בעשרה הרוגי מלכות,

  
  
  

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• S

  Shmueli -14 years ago

  Jaim's Question
  Yes, we can say that Joseph's brothers did complete teshuvá.Consider the following scenario: During the times of the Sanhedrin, Ploni desecrated the Shabbos despite being properly warned by witnesses. He runs away and spends a Shabbos by a Tzaddik, and is so profoundly moved by experiencing the joy and beauty of keeping Shabbos, that he does complete Teshuva, and not only is he now committed to keep Shabbos- he is reaching out to others to share with them the ecstasy of keeping Shabbos. Ploni has done a complete Teshuva. However, when the witnesses finally testify to Sanhedrin regarding his sin, Ploni is arrested, tried, found guilty, and put to death, regardless of his complete Teshuvah. Because the Teshuvah and punishment (atonement) are two different things. Although Ploni has done complete Teshuva, only the death penalty can totally cleanse his soul of his sin.
  This can be applied to Yosef's brothers.
  May all the suffering we have already gone through serve as an atonement to clear the way for the Geulah Now!

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• TT

  tuvia teldon -14 years ago

  yud shvat
  are you doing another farbrengen/shiur for yud shvat?

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• EB

  Eliyahy B. -14 years ago

  Note
  Great lecture.
  Just to add.
  Maybe it another reason why he waited so long to reveal himself to his brothers.
  He had to make sure that they did complete teshuva.
  If they didn't they could very well to plot kill him again in worthiest scenario.
  In the best scenario their life would be miserable. Ashamed that he came back, with hatred in their hearts towards him, not regretted for what they have done - their family would for sure fell apart.
  He just could not come back till this opportunity came out.

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• J

  Jaim -14 years ago

  Question
  Can we say that the Joseph brothers did complete teshuvá?
  
  
  
  We read in Iom Kipur that ten sages were later executed by the romans to pay the Joseph kidnapped. The sages consulted Shomaim and G-d agreed with the romans claim.
  
  
  
  http://www.chabad.org/holid...
  
  
  
  Thanks
  
  Jaim
  
  

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• R

  riki -14 years ago

  question
  לכבוד הרב גיקובסון! בוקר טוב!
  
  .כל הכבוד שיעור מענג!
  
  
  
  אני מעבירה שעור לישראליות שחלקן הרב הוא ספרדיות .
  
  למעטות מהן יש ידע ביהדות אבל ממקורות המוסר .כיצד מסתדר כל הענין בשיחה שהעברת בצורה מעולה עם המדרש שהמרגלים חזרו בגלגול של 10 הרוגי מלכות ויוסף הוא רבי ישמעאל כהן גדול שפשטו את עור פניו כמו שפשטו האחים את כתונת הפסים מיוסף ושם מוסבר כל הענין שהם אף פעם לא בקשו סליחה מיוסף ויוסף נענש אף הוא כי לא נתן להם אפשרות לבקש סליחה?האם התשובה היא 70 פנים לתורה? או שזה אור החסידות על הדברים?
  
  בתודה מראש וישר כח
  
  
  
  ריקי נפישביין
  
  

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• T(

  theresa (noahide) -14 years ago

  your article on Joseph
  Dear rabbi, your writings are often placed in this blog:http://shiratdevorah.blogsp...
  and it is not only inspiring, but strengthening in this times of great turbulence. blessings.

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• L

  laizer -14 years ago

  ah!
  What a shiur! tif un klor. beauty of transmition. give chishek to do teshuva..
  
  Hashem bless you to continue be a ner lehoir
  

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• J

  joe -14 years ago

  many families
  This message is true of many families. They have a brother they dislike and they "sell him out" in one form or another. He makes them uncomfertable and they dispose of him. Teshuvah is then the call for this family. They are tested again with Benjamin. And they have to decide: will they repeat their tragic error or will they, this time around stand up to their historic calling and sacrifice themselves for their brother. This is quite practical for many a family. You made the mistake once, will you repeat it?

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• A

  Admin -14 years ago

  Class Summary:
  Class Summary:
  
  
  
  Finally one of the most dramatic, painful, detailed and exciting stories in the Torah reaches its climax and crescendo. Joseph reveals himself to his brothers and ultimately reunites with his beloved father after 22 years of heart- break and suffering. The brothers are first shocked, embarrassed, and then, finally, relieved.
  
  
  
  But let us take a step back. Joseph had recognized his brothers immediately, yet chose to conceal this fact. Instead, he accused them, imprisoned them, and forced them to and from Egypt, ultimately tearing beloved Benjamin away from Jacob, and causing his elderly father more unnecessary prolonged suffering and heart-break. If he really whole-heartedly forgave them, then he should have revealed himself immediately, and reunited with his father Jacob! And finally, only after this whole ordeal does he choose to do what he should have done initially, identify himself. Why did he do this? For what purpose? Was it revenge? Or to exact punishment on his brothers for their own sake? But what about the feelings of his elderly father Jacob?
  
  
  
  This class will show how Joseph’s actions show us the depth of true healing, and define true repentance. Joseph was not manipulating his brothers, on the contrary, he was guiding them. And ultimately, it was only due to his superficial ‘heartlessness’ that sincere, heartfelt, reconciliation became possible.
  
  
  
  Healing, or Teshuvah, has three components: remorse for the past, resolve for the future, and finally, a moment, a déjà vu, when that resolve is fully actualized and proven. Joseph wanted to ensure that his brothers experienced all three so that a new chapter can begin. This is the sub-plot behind the narrative.
  
  

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Miketz/Vayigash Class

Rabbi YY Jacobson

• December 26, 2011
• |
• 30 Kislev 5772
• |
• 6001 views

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