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The Infamous Case of the Get of Cleves in 1766—and Lessons for Today

How One Divorce Split the Jewish World

2 hr 4 min

A postcard published in 1903 in Warsaw, Poland depicting the synagogue during Tisha B'Av services.

Class Summary:

Rabbi YY Jacobson gave a Tisha B'Av lecture at Ohr Chaim Shul, 20 Forshay rd, Monsey, NY. On Tisha B'Av, Sunday, July 18, 2:15pm ET.

Please leave your comment below!

  • A

    Avromi -2 years ago

    The story is long, but EVERY MINUTE OF WATCHING IT IS WORTH IT!!!

    The מוסר, The takeaway, how the unfortunate events that happen are נוגע in every yid's life in dealing with fellow yidden and הלכה.

    I was there when it was filmed live at בית מדרש אור חיים, and this story kept me in my seat the whole length of it.

    R' YY, thank you for the חיזוק

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  • Anonymous -2 years ago

    This was probably the most interesting t'sha b'av shiur I've ever heard! Thank you 

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  • ABE

    Alter B. Egoz -2 years ago

    Doesn't anyone realize that the email the Rabbi read

    From the husband was that husband pulling his leg? Joking. The Rabbi says he suggested that the husband has a mental illness and that's why he's not giving a gett.

    It appears to me that the husband pulled a fast one. He claims to have taken the Rabbi up on his suggested to go to a psychiatrist.  Then he claims that doctor agrees that he has a mental illness.  Then he says that because of that mental illness he is incapable of giving a gett.

    This is like the famous "Catch-22" of long ago.

    By accepting the Rabbi's idea to go to a doctor he makes the idea of a gett impossible due to his mental illness. 

    Maybe he's not mentally ill but quite sharp.

    As a result we learn in excruciating detail of a 200 year old gett case where there is temporary insanity.  

    Rabbi. I'm guessing he never went to a doctor but was pulling your leg. 

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  • Anonymous -2 years ago

    Question -

    Why did the Rabbi choose this case?

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  • Anonymous -2 years ago

    דיון מרתק!! איזה עושר ו

    פשוט ענק 

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  • Anonymous -2 years ago

    לא היו קידושין

    ב"ה

    יישר כח על השיעור. שאלה.. האם לשיטת בית דין פרנקפורט שיצחק אייזיק הינו שוטה הרי נפסק ברמב"ם בהלכות אישות הלכה פרק ד הלכה ט: השוטה שקידש פקחת או פיקח שקידש שוטה אין כאן קידושין כלל לא מדברי תורה ולא מדברי סופרים.

    והרי לא היו קידושין ומדוע תצטרך בכלל גט?

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    • אא

      אברהם א -1 year ago

      לפני שבת של 7 ברכות לא הי׳ בגדר שוטה , ואומרים שלא הי׳ קידושין כשבשעת  הקידושין הי׳ שוטה 

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  • Anonymous -2 years ago

    Thank you for your wisdom. However, I feel that the emphasis on using Tisha Beav as a day to experience and let out personal pain encourages wallowing in self pity and dwelling futility on the past.

    It is better to utilize this day to consider how we have fallen short in our thoughts, words and behavior toward G-d and others and to correct it.  

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    • E

      Eliyahu -6 months ago

      That sounds like what yesterday was for. Yom Kippur. Tish BeAv is to remember the past and hope for the future.

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  • Anonymous -2 years ago

    As usual...was amazing. Thank you very much   Was an in-depth look into this interesting topic really helped me pass the day and fast easier 

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  • MMP

    Menachem Mendel Plotkin -2 years ago

    Shalom and Happy Tisha B'Av When will this become downloadable?

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  • CG

    Chaya Goldsmith -2 years ago

    What is the next step to help the agunah mentioned? Will this get refuser be confronted? What recourse does the woman have now? Is there no halachic loophole? 

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    • A

      Anonymous -2 years ago

      I am that woman, I thank you for your concern.  It makes all the difference in the world to feel not alone. 

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      • YH

        Yosef Hersh -2 years ago

        If the case is the one I an aware of,  he and she have gone to 2 botei din that she chose.  Both refused her request outright but laid down conditions precedent to a gett. Reasonable doable halachic conditions.  She refuses. She is the koifer beis din and koifer psak.  He is wrongly lumped in with men who refuse to go to beis din or refuse to listen. He went and submitted wholly. He is compliant completely.  Here she is the refuser. But the modern sentiment is always with the woman regardless of the facts. 

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      • YH

        Yosef Hersh -2 years ago

        A few minutes ago I posted that if I am correct I know this particular story. I wrote that he and she went to 2 botei din who refused her  request but instead laid down conditions precedent to a gett. Reasonable doable halachic conditions. She refuses to comply.  She is a koifet beis din, a koifer psak. He went and submitted and is wholly compliant with the conditions/psak. She is the refuser. People with a bias lump him in with men who refuse to go or refuse to listen. That's not this case. Here the sympathy is, as is usual, with the woman regardless of the facts.  

         It appears that my response to the woman claiming to be "that woman" anonymously, was quickly censored.  Perhaps this one will meet a similar fate. This is in line with current Facebook, YouTube  and  social media censorship of views not shared by the admin social media dictators. This censorship even affected the presidency. It is noteworthy that with the unrest in Cuba the dictators have excluded the internet.  The first step in tyranny is attack on free speech and the first step to democracy and emes is free speech.  Especially when it's the emes. 

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      • YH

        Yosef Hersh -2 years ago

        I think I know this case. I have twice now posted the emes and twice the emes has been censored and removed.  One cannot change the emes by censorship.  In this case the couple have gone to the 2  Botei  din of her choice. Both refused her request and laid down conditions precedent to a gett.  He went and submitted to the decision whatever it would be. She went obky with a single  agenda in mind and refused compliance.  He is complying with the conditions.  Ironically she is the one who is koifer beis din not he. Those with an agenda like the censor here lump him in with those men who either refuse to go to beis din or refuse to comply.  He has done neither.  He complies with beus din whereas she isnt.  The censorship cannot change the truth. Like the censorship of Facebook, YouTube etc who censor regardless of the facts. 

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      • YH

        Yosef Hersh -2 years ago

        I think I know this case.. Three times my attempt to reveal the emes  and show the sheker was censored and removed. 

        She is the koifer beis din while he is compliant. 

        BH Hashem knows the emes! 

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        • A

          Anon -2 years ago

          R. Jacobson, and the entire Chabad community are ALL sheker, while only you know the emes? You might want to listen to the talk above, which addresses that attitude.  In any case, Moshe Isenberg, your writing style and hubris will always betray you.  Especially when you use your own brother's name as an alias. Save your soul, and give your wife a get. 

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          • YH

            Yosef Hersh -2 years ago

            Lol. I give my name and email openly while you remain anonymous,  accusing me. Do you know that the Alter Rebbe paskens that if public slander has occurred, (and Rabbi YY has indeed done so to him several times) then any subsequent gett is invalid as "coerced"?  C. 24 Shailos and.Teshuvos. 

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  • LP

    Laura Papelow -2 years ago

    THANK YOU!

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  • JF

    Jay Friedmann -2 years ago

    There's a cracking sound on the live stream 

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  • DJ

    Derek Jeter -2 years ago

    Is this available through YouTube live?

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    • Anonymous -2 years ago

      Looks like not. Just here. 

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  • R

    Rachel -2 years ago

    Does anyone has the Zoom ID?

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  • JF

    Joshua Friedmann -2 years ago

    So I just got confirmation that it's live for both men and women. All are welcome.

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  • Anonymous -2 years ago

    are women able to go to the class in Monsey?

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    • JF

      Joshua Friedmann -2 years ago

      It's probably gonna be only live hookup. And even if not, I suggest going in person. The last few years the place has been extremely full Tisha Bav. And there was also no parking at all. Although last year it was only men because of Covid.

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    • JF

      Joshua Friedmann -2 years ago

      Yes

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Rabbi YY's Lecture on Tisha B'Av 5781

Rabbi YY Jacobson

  • July 18, 2021
  • |
  • 9 Av 5781
  • |
  • 5240 views

Dedicated by Chani and Sam Salomon, in loving memory of his father, Reb Ezriel ben Reb Yaakov Salomon, for the yartzeit on 9 AV. 

Reb Ezriel was orphaned before his bar-mitzvah and went on to become a master educator in Gateshead, teaching over 50 years tens of thousands of students, with love. He was a humble and generous man, accentuating the goodness in every child and adult he encountered.

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